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Valliss
post Nov 4 2008, 10:11 AM
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I live in a real rural part of West Virginia, but I'm close to D.C. and I'm sure fallout would reach me quickly. I have this cave behind my home which is like 200 feet back into a mountain, I was wondering if this would provide adequate protection from the nuclear fallout. Thanks.
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Guest_Happyfeet_*
post Nov 4 2008, 11:22 AM
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Indeed it would although air contamination might be a problem.
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Valliss
post Nov 4 2008, 11:36 AM
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Thanks, Happy Birthday by the way!
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Sergeant Russell
post Nov 4 2008, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Valliss @ Nov 4 2008, 12:36 PM) *
Thanks, Happy Birthday by the way!


Yes, Happy Birthday Happyfeet.

I would trust a cave over most any other possible hiding places. If I were you, I would test the air for impurities sometime soon so that you can know for sure if it is bad or not incase you do have to flee to it...if it is you could still buy a gasmask and a few for your family and survive with that for a while.


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nunnally04
post Nov 12 2008, 08:54 AM
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This is about the same thing as the old mine shafts, but usually safer (less chance of colapsing I would think). You might want to check that thread for some more info.






BTW: I don't have spell check on this computer (school comp) so I apologize for my bad spelling.


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Respectfully, Hayden Nunnally.

Just to let everyone know, I'm only 15, but i would like to be treated the age I act, and in return I will try my hardest to respect you and all others.
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Valliss
post Sep 19 2010, 02:15 PM
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Sorry for the necropost, just bringing this thread back up in an attempt to start YCD back up as requested, and because people in the mountains would be surprised at the amount of caves there really are if you look for em.

Anybody have any ideas on filtering the air that deep inside the cave? Also, it seems difficult, but not impossible to keep bats out of the cave, any thoughts on that?

Valliss
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Feeny
post Sep 22 2010, 03:43 PM
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When looking at the "bad air" (aka toxic/non-breathable air) the first thing is defining where in the cave you are. Further from an entrance will have more stale air and the lower in elevation you go in the cave will have higher levels of CO2, as it tends to sink. Here is some information about "bad air".

"At low altitudes, however, most humans lose consciousness before reaching so low a level of oxygen that a carbide lamp goes out. The oxygen content of normal cave air is about 20 percent. Candles go out at about 16 percent; 15 percent is the approximate beginning level of dangerous hypoxia (lack of adequate body oxygen) with increasing, unrecognized grogginess. At 12 percent the situation is critical, and in 7 to 8 percent oxygen death is rapid. Carbide lamps are said to burn in oxygen concentrations as low as 8 to 10 percent (Halliday,76).

"Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is the body's regulator of the breathing function. It is normally present in the air at a concentration of 0.03% by volume. Any increase above this level will cause accelerated breathing and heart rate. A concentration of 10% can cause respiratory paralysis and death within a few minutes. In industry the maximum safe working level recommended for an 8 hour working day is 0.5% .

"To the novice caver the first encounter with foul air is often a frightening experience. Typically there is no smell or visual sign associated with foul air and the first signs are increased pulse and breathing rates. Higher concentrations of CO2 lead to clumsiness, severe headaches, dizziness and even death. Experienced foul air cavers can notice a dry acidic taste in their mouth, however the average caver may not notice this effect (Smith)."

A surprisingly good way to test the air in a cave is with a BIC Lighter. Light it on the surface and observe the flame. At 19.5% oxygen the flame changes color and a small gap will begin to be noticeable between the flame and the jet. At 18% oxygen, the flame will burn about 1 inch above the jet. At 17% oxygen, the lighter goes out and can not be relit. This is not a good way to test CO2, but for the most part that does not matter as long as you follow this one rule. When the lighter no longer burns, STOP! Mark on the walls or floor and leave, DO NOT TRY TO EXPLORE MORE, DO NOT TRY A DIFFERENT PATH, LEAVE. Once your outside, take a nice walk around outside, and a snack. Now you can go back in, but do not cross that mark you put down with out proper gear or someone who knows what their doing.

If you do this and stay sharp you should be able to get surprisingly far into your cave with out worrying about air quality.


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Valliss
post Sep 23 2010, 08:38 PM
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Thanks for that, that's some useful information no doubt, I'll try that soon. Cave seems like my best bet now.
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Feeny
post Sep 24 2010, 02:52 PM
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Ya, caves are fun. But you have to respect them. Also I wouldn't worry about bats. Unless the floor is inches deep in guano there is really no health concern, and actually they will help keep the area around the cave clear of nasty bugs.
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