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thorshammer
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Oct 9 2008, 04:16 PM) *
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Sep 28 2008, 07:16 PM) *
Well to be honest, I don't have one...but I would like to buy one premade, to save much time, and etc. Could someone help me by posting link(s) for some nice ones, as I don't know a lot about the necessary equipment.Thanks, Hayden.


Anyone, not only do I not have the nessasery cash to make the kit, but I don't have experience with large kits, I'm used to going with little resources.



Honestly it is better to make your own kit(s). This way it will contain exactly what you need and not a bunch of extra stuff that you don't. Also, most pre-made kits tend to use lesser quality items and/or the price tends to be more than the contents are actually worth. A cheap bag from Wal-mart and a few things found in the home improvement and camping sections can be assembled for very little money. Also yard sales and thrift shops are good places to find good quality items on occasion.

Before you run out and start buying stuff.... ask yourself,
"Where am I going? What will I do once I get there? How long do I need this kit to sustain me? What type of environment will I be in?"
Once you figure all that out, then you can start looking what to purchase. In the end though, it is all just stuff. Stuff can be broken, lost, stolen or it may not be readily available( as in you are away from home where your kit is stored) when you find yourself in a situation where you actually need it. The things that can not be taken away is knowledge and experience. A good kit without the knowledge and experience in using them will do you less justice compared to having a good bit of knowledge and experience and no kit at all. Learn the skills you need and use them often.

nostrings6972
QUOTE (thorshammer @ Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM) *
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Oct 9 2008, 04:16 PM) *
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Sep 28 2008, 07:16 PM) *
Well to be honest, I don't have one...but I would like to buy one premade, to save much time, and etc. Could someone help me by posting link(s) for some nice ones, as I don't know a lot about the necessary equipment.Thanks, Hayden.


Anyone, not only do I not have the nessasery cash to make the kit, but I don't have experience with large kits, I'm used to going with little resources.



Honestly it is better to make your own kit(s). This way it will contain exactly what you need and not a bunch of extra stuff that you don't. Also, most pre-made kits tend to use lesser quality items and/or the price tends to be more than the contents are actually worth. A cheap bag from Wal-mart and a few things found in the home improvement and camping sections can be assembled for very little money. Also yard sales and thrift shops are good places to find good quality items on occasion.

Before you run out and start buying stuff.... ask yourself,
"Where am I going? What will I do once I get there? How long do I need this kit to sustain me? What type of environment will I be in?"
Once you figure all that out, then you can start looking what to purchase. In the end though, it is all just stuff. Stuff can be broken, lost, stolen or it may not be readily available( as in you are away from home where your kit is stored) when you find yourself in a situation where you actually need it. The things that can not be taken away is knowledge and experience. A good kit without the knowledge and experience in using them will do you less justice compared to having a good bit of knowledge and experience and no kit at all. Learn the skills you need and use them often.

Good point on the knowledge and experience, Thor. I'm in the process of making my big BOB and keeping it at home and toss a small one in my truck to last a few days and get me home to my real cache if need be.
nunnally04
My BOB is almost finished, and I need a good bit more stuff. The things I need still are:

1. A new bag, the one I have now is real big, but not big enough, too many small pockets. It also isn't very comfortable, which I learned on my long hike/camp.
2.more BDUs, I have 2 pair now total, and one blouse, and one field jacket.
3.undershirts, socks, underwear, etc
4.hand saw (the rope like kind), or a hatchet (need help deciding)
5.folding shovel (maybe not, working on making a new handle for a small one I have now (non folding).
6.lighter/fire starters (tinder, flints, etc)
7.misquto/bug- nets/block/etc
8.60-85lb test line (I have 15 and 20 now)(about 600 yards total)
9.survival books/guides
10.navigation equipment (compass, maps, ruler, etc)
11.a couple more personal hygiene equipment (shaving, shampoo, etc)
12.water/filtering/purifing stuff
13.food- MREs, Mountain House, etc (where can I get actual MREs not the knock-offs)(whats best)(how many)
14.bottled water/canteens
15.rain equipment
16. 550 cord, etc
17.more sleeping equipment (bag/cover/etc)
18.cooking equipment



As you can see, I don't have a very complete kit now, all of the stuff I have now, I already had, so I haven't bought anything. I would like to stay as cheap as possible, and still get good equipment, I have the money.
Tasco
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 16 2008, 08:27 PM) *
My BOB is almost finished, and I need a good bit more stuff. The things I need still are:

1. A new bag, the one I have now is real big, but not big enough, too many small pockets. It also isn't very comfortable, which I learned on my long hike/camp.
2.more BDUs, I have 2 pair now total, and one blouse, and one field jacket.
3.undershirts, socks, underwear, etc
4.hand saw (the rope like kind), or a hatchet (need help deciding)
5.folding shovel (maybe not, working on making a new handle for a small one I have now (non folding).
6.lighter/fire starters (tinder, flints, etc)
7.misquto/bug- nets/block/etc
8.60-85lb test line (I have 15 and 20 now)(about 600 yards total)
9.survival books/guides
10.navigation equipment (compass, maps, ruler, etc)
11.a couple more personal hygiene equipment (shaving, shampoo, etc)
12.water/filtering/purifing stuff
13.food- MREs, Mountain House, etc (where can I get actual MREs not the knock-offs)(whats best)(how many)
14.bottled water/canteens
15.rain equipment
16. 550 cord, etc
17.more sleeping equipment (bag/cover/etc)
18.cooking equipment



As you can see, I don't have a very complete kit now, all of the stuff I have now, I already had, so I haven't bought anything. I would like to stay as cheap as possible, and still get good equipment, I have the money.


Here are some of my suggestions -
1. Welcome to my world. I am loosing my mind trying to decide which pack to get...right now, I'm leaning toward the CAMELBAK BFM - one of the cheapest places I have found it.
2. One more set would be fine.
13. The knock-offs would work just as fine. If I was you, I would strip them down, there in no need to carry extra weight when you know you will just eat the main meal. Depending on your tasted buds, you may want to buy some to eat first but since I am a MRE expert, I would suggest you get some Beef Stew, Pot Roast and Beef Ravioli. There are a few more to get, but try to get ones that you know you will eat. Also Kosher meals are descent tasting, you just have to add salt to those.
18. Keep the heaters that's found in the MREs. They just need a little water and they will cook the main meal pouch. If cooking open flame, ECOFUELXB is a great little can.

I did notice you didn't have a flashlight in your list, I suggest the GI issue flashlight, the one with the 90 degree head. It come with a red, blue, and solid white filter lens.
nunnally04
QUOTE (Tasco @ Nov 17 2008, 12:19 PM) *
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 16 2008, 08:27 PM) *
My BOB is almost finished, and I need a good bit more stuff. The things I need still are:

1. A new bag, the one I have now is real big, but not big enough, too many small pockets. It also isn't very comfortable, which I learned on my long hike/camp.
2.more BDUs, I have 2 pair now total, and one blouse, and one field jacket.
3.undershirts, socks, underwear, etc
4.hand saw (the rope like kind), or a hatchet (need help deciding)
5.folding shovel (maybe not, working on making a new handle for a small one I have now (non folding).
6.lighter/fire starters (tinder, flints, etc)
7.misquto/bug- nets/block/etc
8.60-85lb test line (I have 15 and 20 now)(about 600 yards total)
9.survival books/guides
10.navigation equipment (compass, maps, ruler, etc)
11.a couple more personal hygiene equipment (shaving, shampoo, etc)
12.water/filtering/purifing stuff
13.food- MREs, Mountain House, etc (where can I get actual MREs not the knock-offs)(whats best)(how many)
14.bottled water/canteens
15.rain equipment
16. 550 cord, etc
17.more sleeping equipment (bag/cover/etc)
18.cooking equipment



As you can see, I don't have a very complete kit now, all of the stuff I have now, I already had, so I haven't bought anything. I would like to stay as cheap as possible, and still get good equipment, I have the money.


Here are some of my suggestions -
1. Welcome to my world. I am loosing my mind trying to decide which pack to get...right now, I'm leaning toward the CAMELBAK BFM - one of the cheapest places I have found it.
2. One more set would be fine.
13. The knock-offs would work just as fine. If I was you, I would strip them down, there in no need to carry extra weight when you know you will just eat the main meal. Depending on your tasted buds, you may want to buy some to eat first but since I am a MRE expert, I would suggest you get some Beef Stew, Pot Roast and Beef Ravioli. There are a few more to get, but try to get ones that you know you will eat. Also Kosher meals are descent tasting, you just have to add salt to those.
18. Keep the heaters that's found in the MREs. They just need a little water and they will cook the main meal pouch. If cooking open flame, ECOFUELXB is a great little can.

I did notice you didn't have a flashlight in your list, I suggest the GI issue flashlight, the one with the 90 degree head. It come with a red, blue, and solid white filter lens.


1.That's a little out of the money I want to spend. I already have a camelback, so I don't need the built in one.
2.Thanks.
13.Good to know, but I can always use a little snack when the SHTF, and I would like to get the biggest bag possible. And BTW I used to have a few cases of them, of all different meals, and I know which ones I want, thanks though.
18.Well if its more than about 10 days (give or take), so I will be catching/killing game for food (plus I'll get tired of MREs), so I was thinking some of those stoves that all you do is open it and drop a lit match in, and its ready to go (Sterno).

As far as a flashlight, I carry a mini mag lite (2 AA) with a nite-eyes $18 LED and IQ switch conversion kit with me everywhere. Works great, but I'll try to give that one a try as a large BOB light.
Tasco
Sorry about posting a fairly expensive pack. I always like the BFM and like to share with others. If your looking for a cheap pack - Voodoo Tactical Packs. There all under $100 bucks.

For your stove suggestion, If you cook big game then yes the stove you mentioned will work just fine. I though you was looking for smaller game like rabbit, squirrel and maybe bird. Heck I would just start a fire and cook with it, but that's just me happy.gif .
nunnally04
QUOTE (Tasco @ Nov 18 2008, 12:05 AM) *
Sorry about posting a fairly expensive pack. I always like the BFM and like to share with others. If your looking for a cheap pack - Voodoo Tactical Packs. There all under $100 bucks.

For your stove suggestion, If you cook big game then yes the stove you mentioned will work just fine. I though you was looking for smaller game like rabbit, squirrel and maybe bird. Heck I would just start a fire and cook with it, but that's just me happy.gif .


Well the pack is about the right price range, its just I can get a better/bigger one without the camelback cheaper.


As for making a fire...that makes smoke...which could be a problem when TSHTF. I could always cook something like a deer (or other large game) piece by piece.
Happyfeet
This thread is kickass guys, I'm getting my gear together, I already got the camping gear, just not put together.

Backpacking rig with very little accually in place.

1. pack of 5 double poptarts in a side pouch.
1. pack of 10 granola bars.
2. cans of baked beans.
2. pairs of wool socks in a plastic baggie.
1. Thick poncho that can double as a tent.
1. Sleeping bag and inflatable mat, both can be used for medical as well.
1.can of start footpowder.
1. 4 cell maglite.
1. Airsoft mask.
1. Pair of binoculars


I know I have nothing really prepared yet, but Im not sure what all I want to take, I dont even know what rifle Id bug out with yet. Poptarts and granola bars are waterproof and can be eaten on the move, both are more durable than things like ramen, both can be soaking wet. Both cans will supplement a meal and can be ditched since we aren't dealing with a forest. I could stay contained currently for between 2-3 days

I don't want a mat and sleeping bag, I need it. Even tonight, going outside overnight with winds hitting 30+mph in town, and over 60mph on the flatland would be suicide. There is a need to be able to hunker down, during the winter it is also possible to build snow caves and block some of the wind, but a arctic bag and pad are a must.

Why footpowder? Feet get wet, they need to get dry, this starch can absorb a ton of water.


I know a few of you might, "OMG NO MATCHES OR NUTHIN!!1" The thing is, theres nothing to burn summer or winter. Very few trees means fuel for a fire may be next to impossible to find during the wet summers, and a joke during the winter. I know you might think I'm kidding but several feet ofsnow swept like a tundra on discovery channel and a constant wind means we are playing survival like discovery channel.

I have not included a compass, but I will include a regional map, the reason for this is because there is nothing but small farm towns and farmsteads around here. If I needed to get somewhere, I would have to either follow the roads, or cross fields to link up with roads.

The pack is hunter orange, however I would drop it and flee should there be an armed confrontation.


Fishing gear? Thanks to the farmers here anything in the river is toxic enough to put you down, theres no point in fishing for sport when you want to survive.

Why an airsoft mask? The mask has had the mouthguard completely stuffed with loose stuffing, the reason is to block the wind before it hits my face,

More gear will be to come.


I really think its awesome that everyone else came to the same conclusion about preparing for their situation as opposed to a generic todo list.
nunnally04
QUOTE (Happyfeet @ Nov 19 2008, 12:40 AM) *
This thread is kickass guys, I'm getting my gear together, I already got the camping gear, just not put together.

Backpacking rig with very little accually in place.

1. pack of 5 double poptarts in a side pouch.
1. pack of 10 granola bars.
2. cans of baked beans.
2. pairs of wool socks in a plastic baggie.
1. Thick poncho that can double as a tent.
1. Sleeping bag and inflatable mat, both can be used for medical as well.
1.can of start footpowder.
1. 4 cell maglite.
1. Airsoft mask.
1. Pair of binoculars


I know I have nothing really prepared yet, but Im not sure what all I want to take, I dont even know what rifle Id bug out with yet. Poptarts and granola bars are waterproof and can be eaten on the move, both are more durable than things like ramen, both can be soaking wet. Both cans will supplement a meal and can be ditched since we aren't dealing with a forest. I could stay contained currently for between 2-3 days

I don't want a mat and sleeping bag, I need it. Even tonight, going outside overnight with winds hitting 30+mph in town, and over 60mph on the flatland would be suicide. There is a need to be able to hunker down, during the winter it is also possible to build snow caves and block some of the wind, but a arctic bag and pad are a must.

Why footpowder? Feet get wet, they need to get dry, this starch can absorb a ton of water.


I know a few of you might, "OMG NO MATCHES OR NUTHIN!!1" The thing is, theres nothing to burn summer or winter. Very few trees means fuel for a fire may be next to impossible to find during the wet summers, and a joke during the winter. I know you might think I'm kidding but several feet ofsnow swept like a tundra on discovery channel and a constant wind means we are playing survival like discovery channel.

I have not included a compass, but I will include a regional map, the reason for this is because there is nothing but small farm towns and farmsteads around here. If I needed to get somewhere, I would have to either follow the roads, or cross fields to link up with roads.

The pack is hunter orange, however I would drop it and flee should there be an armed confrontation.


Fishing gear? Thanks to the farmers here anything in the river is toxic enough to put you down, theres no point in fishing for sport when you want to survive.

Why an airsoft mask? The mask has had the mouthguard completely stuffed with loose stuffing, the reason is to block the wind before it hits my face,

More gear will be to come.


I really think its awesome that everyone else came to the same conclusion about preparing for their situation as opposed to a generic todo list.



As far as the fire, if you have the room in your pack, pack a couple (or one) fire starter sticks. Once you get it started (burning good) wet wood will work, it will just smoke a lot (I have done it FYI).
thorshammer
My suggestions for inexpensive yet good gear.

QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 16 2008, 10:27 PM) *
My BOB is almost finished, and I need a good bit more stuff. The things I need still are:

1. A new bag, the one I have now is real big, but not big enough, too many small pockets. It also isn't very comfortable, which I learned on my long hike/camp.

Mil-surplus Medium ALICE pack w/frame

2.more BDUs, I have 2 pair now total, and one blouse, and one field jacket.

Two total pair are plenty to start with.

3.undershirts, socks, underwear, etc

Don't skimp on socks, get quality wool or poly blend hiking socks.

4.hand saw (the rope like kind), or a hatchet (need help deciding)

Skip the wire/rope saws as the kink/bind and break fairly easily. Check this out instead:
http://www.pocketchainsaw.com/ cheapest I found them http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/products_...KU=CCSPR-PS-103

As for hatchets I really like the Gerber hatchets made by Fiskars. They are extremely tough, sharp and hold their edge better than any hatchet I've used yet. Instead of buying the Gerber name you get the Fiskars label for roughly $10 less at most Home Depots or Lowes. http://www.fiskars.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s...p;page=products


5.folding shovel (maybe not, working on making a new handle for a small one I have now (non folding).

If you are not planning on digging foxholes and such, there isn't much that can not be accomplished using a $2 high density plastic garden trowel from Wal-mart, Lowes or Home depot. Honestly depends on what you plan on digging. You could also buy a Cold Steel Soviet Spetsnaz style shovel( does not fold) which could double as you hatchet as well.

6.lighter/fire starters (tinder, flints, etc)

Cheap BIC lighter, magnesium and flint bar, film canister- round altoids tin- plastic chewing tobacco can filled with either 100% cotton balls or dryer lint that has been smeared in petroleum jelly/vaseline. The petro-cotton balls are excellent little fire starters and can also come in handy for certain first aid uses such as chapped lips, dry chapped hands, minor cuts, etc.

7.misquto/bug- nets/block/etc

look for 100% deet in the sporting goods section of Walmart. Mosquito head nets come in pretty handy too.

8.60-85lb test line (I have 15 and 20 now)(about 600 yards total)

What are you planning on using this for?

9.survival books/guides

In my personal opinion the absolute best survival handbook for a BOB of survival bag of any type is The SAS Survival Handbook by John "Lofty" Wiseman from Collins Gem which measures 3"x4"x1" can be found here:
http://www.amazon.com/Collins-Gem-Sas-Surv...748&sr=11-1
Another worth while thing to have in your BOB(IMO) is this if you find them: http://www.iamfritz.com/utstest/civvie_cards_est.html


10.navigation equipment (compass, maps, ruler, etc)

Brunton and Silva both make good compasses. Brunton has a good compass and video package that I think is great. http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=EV%20...hcd2=1227152658

11.a couple more personal hygiene equipment (shaving, shampoo, etc)

Skip shaving don't want to increase risk of cuts and infection. Skip shampoo and go with bar soap as the shampoo bottle has the potential to leak and get on the other contents of your pack. Baby wipes come in handy at times.

12.water/filtering/purifing stuff

Given the limited budget this would be one of my first choices of water filterhttp://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_WS%20B250_A_name_E_[[ProductNameURL]] Potable Aqua iodine tabs can be found in the sporting goods section of Walmart. You can use a clean bandanna or section panty hose to filter out large particulates.

13.food- MREs, Mountain House, etc (where can I get actual MREs not the knock-offs)(whats best)(how many)

another option to maximize space and weight to calorie and vitamin intake http://www.survivalunlimited.com/mainstay.htm

14.bottled water/canteens

A couple USGI 1qt canteens in cold weather covers would be a good start.

15.rain equipment

a couple GI ponchos w/ liners(doubles as shelter and sleeping bag replacement) or 55 gal contractor trash bags

16. 550 cord, etc
17.more sleeping equipment (bag/cover/etc)
18.cooking equipment

Canteen cup and stove stowed with one of the canteens in canteen cover. A dozen trioxane fuel tabs.



As you can see, I don't have a very complete kit now, all of the stuff I have now, I already had, so I haven't bought anything. I would like to stay as cheap as possible, and still get good equipment, I have the money.


Again these are just my suggestions for cheap and functional options.
Wayneard3413
Ive always found it helpful to see how other people carry their fighting loads to get new ideas...

Here is how mine is currently setup...

L.-R. on the armor
Gerber stashed away in a HSGI pouch (usually on my 1st line), 4x mags in TT shingles, 2x M9 mags in Eagle FB pouches and 1x M4 FB pouch

On the belt
Custom made mag pouch carrying a 20 round mag, Rolly Polly, 6005 set up for a high ride and a Blackwater pistol mag pouch (soon to be replaced with another FB)



Close up of the pouch arrangement...



Shot of the back, Camelback and IFAK (there is also usually a canteen pouch on the opposite side of the camelback used as a GP)


So far i am liking this setup... I plan on going to the range later this week and ill try it out there and see what needs tweaking

EDIT BY TASCO - Topic title changed due to pin of topic.
Tasco
Good looking set up. How hard is it to reach the IFAK since you have it attached to the back??

I also see that I won't be the only one buggin out in ACU. biggrin.gif

EDIT - Almost forgot, plates or no plates?
Wayneard3413
I usually have my CAT rubberbanded to the front of my rig so i can grab it in a hurry... Although i can reach the kit it is still there mostly for my buddy to grab out of of

Plates are at the unit... We usually only get those out when needed... I still like keeping this under the bed since it has the Lvl 3 soft armor in it and would be nice to at least drape over the bed in front of me even if i dont have time to throw it on
Tasco
You have to wait until your unit gives you plates? That sucks. I was issued some the first day I got to my unit. Granted, I have to turn them back in, but thats a few years from now.

Im also very luck to say I have an extra FPU body armor (FPU - Fragmentation Protective Undergarment) and an extra IBA with Lv3 soft armor. Im still debating on whether or not to use the IBA or try to fit the soft armor into the outer shell of the FPU. Since the FPU is worn underneath clothes, its pretty much undetectable. I also think thats a great idea anyway because walking around town in a IBA and having some ammo pouches hanging of it just screams - HEY LOOK AT ME, I HAVE BODY ARMOR AND YOU DONT!!!! So yeah, I want to be as incogneto as I can.
nunnally04
A once stansard issue LBV...4 double mag pouches, a 2 "anything" (grenade) pouches, and a custom made nylon pistol holster (airsoft). I usually have on my canteen (vietnam era) pouch foro extra storage on the side. I carry a light LBV for speed, and to keep it from getting it cought on anything. And I have all the pockets on my BDUs full with something usualy. That is all for airsoft, for my kit NOW, I have a knap sack, and a bandoleer for shotgun shells. But I would get my hands on a combat rifle (buy or take from dead BG) when TSHTF.
thorshammer
My kit changes depending on the task at hand. I have a level IIIA concealment vest as my go to armor. It will not stop rifle rounds but it is lighter and more maneuverable than the bulky entry vest with level IV ceramic I had years ago. I felt the trade offs were worth it for my needs, though I might feel differently if I happen to take a rifle round to the chest. laugh.gif

These are a few of my go to chest rigs, I run the bottom one in the first picture the most:





When running the modified type 68 rig or the rig in the second picture I have to use a drop leg holster for the pistol which currently is a Blackhawk Serpa rig(which I think sucks by the way). I use a Blackhawk CQC carbon fiber holster and Fobus dual pistol mag pouch(which is also my summer open carry/winter concealed carry set up) when using the modified three cell chi-com pouch. A Blackhawk rolly polly type dump pouch rides at the 2 o'clock position on my belt with all rigs. I had a Blackhawk STRIKE Recon Commando( gotta luv the marketing hype) chest rig for a while but found it to be to bulky and cumbersome for my needs. I plan on getting either an Eagle AK chest rig or a Russian M43 chest rig before February. Also plan on getting a SpecOps Vapor thigh holster too which I think should solve my issues with my other thigh rigs.

I also picked this up from Cheaper than Dirt a while ago:



Pending further testing it may end up being a quick grab and go rig for additional mags.
Happyfeet
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 19 2008, 05:19 PM) *
As far as the fire, if you have the room in your pack, pack a couple (or one) fire starter sticks. Once you get it started (burning good) wet wood will work, it will just smoke a lot (I have done it FYI).


You don't understand, this place turns into a tundra during the winter with the wind wipping the snow smooth overnight and freezing the somewhat melted surface during the day. Any wood is soaked and starting a fire is going to be impossible. I don't want to take a sleeping bag and all but if you want to talk about survival, you will freeze to death overnight without being prepared to fare in the arctic.
Wayneard3413
I was looking at those on CTD

Willis makes a kick ass little patrol type rig that carries 2 rifle mags, 2 pistol mags and a small GP for a FAK

I could do without the pistol mags but i like having at least a small FAK on hand

I have an issue pouch much like that one that we used to keep slung over the seats in the truck so you had a full combat load ready to go if you needed to dismount in a hurry and you could always backfill your rig once you got back to the truck
Sergeant Russell
QUOTE (Happyfeet @ Nov 25 2008, 02:12 AM) *
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 19 2008, 05:19 PM) *
As far as the fire, if you have the room in your pack, pack a couple (or one) fire starter sticks. Once you get it started (burning good) wet wood will work, it will just smoke a lot (I have done it FYI).


You don't understand, this place turns into a tundra during the winter with the wind wipping the snow smooth overnight and freezing the somewhat melted surface during the day. Any wood is soaked and starting a fire is going to be impossible. I don't want to take a sleeping bag and all but if you want to talk about survival, you will freeze to death overnight without being prepared to fare in the arctic.


Umm...I seriously think you will think differantly about fire after spending just one night in the cold without it.

Lol...you aren't supposed to make a fire on the surface in the winter anyways...you dig a hole in the snow and then make a fire pit in there...the fire will tunnel to dry ground after a while and it can be used again from there as long as the snow isn't too high. And snow that smooths out on top will get quickly melted and evaporated away if you build the pit right. With a fire starting stick, it should dry the first bit of wood relatively fast and then the wet wood you pile on will dry and burn as well...it isn't a little match, and even if it where it wouldn't be "Impossible" to start a fire.

Without a fire, good luck preparing food after you run out of your poptarts without getting a disease or throwing it up...not to mention the remnants of the fire (The coals) can be eaten and then vomited back out removing any impurities in your digestive system above your intestines...they can really help relieve you of illnesses.

Oh yeah, BTW, a sleeping bag isn't going to keep your warm in an "arctic tundra"...if you think it will you go ahead and have a fun night sleeping with a sleeping bag and no fire out in the snow. You are better off using the snow as an insulant (Which it serves incredibly well as) if it is just a normal sleeping bag.
JasterUSSAF
I have about 6 rigs that if SHTF would be handed out to my little team I have here.

My Personal Rig:
Knock CIRAS Land in MC
6x Double AR Mag Pouches
1x GP Pouch with Radio and Misc tools
1x GP Pouch with First Aid kit
1x GP Pouch currently empty
1x Hydration Carrier
3x Zip Cuffs

It may seem like overkill but I'm in a heavy populated area and if it ever came to bug out time I'd most likely have to fight my way out hard and fast. There's about 2 million documented people between my place and our safe point. I'll get pics up after the holiday. To complete it all I need are 10x12s
Happyfeet
QUOTE (Sergeant Russell @ Nov 25 2008, 08:39 PM) *
QUOTE (Happyfeet @ Nov 25 2008, 02:12 AM) *
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 19 2008, 05:19 PM) *
As far as the fire, if you have the room in your pack, pack a couple (or one) fire starter sticks. Once you get it started (burning good) wet wood will work, it will just smoke a lot (I have done it FYI).


You don't understand, this place turns into a tundra during the winter with the wind wipping the snow smooth overnight and freezing the somewhat melted surface during the day. Any wood is soaked and starting a fire is going to be impossible. I don't want to take a sleeping bag and all but if you want to talk about survival, you will freeze to death overnight without being prepared to fare in the arctic.


Umm...I seriously think you will think differantly about fire after spending just one night in the cold without it.

Lol...you aren't supposed to make a fire on the surface in the winter anyways...you dig a hole in the snow and then make a fire pit in there...the fire will tunnel to dry ground after a while and it can be used again from there as long as the snow isn't too high. And snow that smooths out on top will get quickly melted and evaporated away if you build the pit right. With a fire starting stick, it should dry the first bit of wood relatively fast and then the wet wood you pile on will dry and burn as well...it isn't a little match, and even if it where it wouldn't be "Impossible" to start a fire.

Without a fire, good luck preparing food after you run out of your poptarts without getting a disease or throwing it up...not to mention the remnants of the fire (The coals) can be eaten and then vomited back out removing any impurities in your digestive system above your intestines...they can really help relieve you of illnesses.

Oh yeah, BTW, a sleeping bag isn't going to keep your warm in an "arctic tundra"...if you think it will you go ahead and have a fun night sleeping with a sleeping bag and no fire out in the snow. You are better off using the snow as an insulant (Which it serves incredibly well as) if it is just a normal sleeping bag.



Hence the poncho as a wind barrier and an extra mat that can be used as a wind barrier. Again it stands that It may be hard to find wood to even start a fire in negative degree weather. My best bet anyway is to take shelter in abandoned farmsteads anyway.
Sergeant Russell
Well, I don't know that happyfeet quite knows what it feels like to go a night in the winter with temperatures around or below zero without a fire...I do and it sucks! I would sacrifice just about anything in my near by enviornment to get a fire going and keep it going as well. If he ever finds out he will know why we think that. Going without a fire can not only let your body temperature drop heavily (WHICH HAS HUGE CONSEQUENCES) but also cause you to have to eat any meat you are able to obtail raw and to have to drink water that isn't purified through boiling, BTW< I better not here a reply about just eating snow for hydration...that is idiotic.

Definately have a source for fire starting or even learn how to do it the "Old fasion way" with a bow and a stick. I even saw a way on Survivorman the other day (Bad source but it was interesting) on how to make a fire using a flashlight...all you have to do is break the bulb in the light without breaking the fillaments inside, then put everything back toghether and put some dry grass on top...turn it on and it catches fire - just keep in mind that you are loosing the entire flashlight when you do it.
Happyfeet
I'll try saying this again, there will most likely either be an old barn or farmhouse I can stay in or a tundralike surface of shallow snow and nothing but icepack. Winds are always a problem and that also adds to the problem of creating a fire. I'm better off sheltering as best I can with some tarp and decent sleeping bag with something to create a wind break. Try starting a fire in 30+mph winds and its nearly impossible, much less guaranteed to work. My plan is to simply not get in to a survival mode situation and plan my routes out as smart as possible and keep my maps handy.

Speaking of maps, I now have three, I added a recent aeronautical map to my list that contains a ton of useful information on landmarks and reference points. My contingency plan should I need to evacuate on my own is to head straight south towards Des Moines along the highways and use the snow banks and ditches for cover. I also want some white hunting camo to help me blend in should I need it, the problem is that I really like black during the day since it soaks up sunlight.

Honestly, this is a terrible place to just try and bug out on your own. I may add one of our backpacking tents to the list to hwlp with the shelter problem. All this just increases the chances of survival however, its a grim choice to head out in the dead of winter on foot here.
Sergeant Russell
I'm not even going to argue it anymore...but fire isn't a problem if you learn how to make it and utilize it correctly..even in 30 mph winds. Anyways, maybe some winter survival classes would be helpfull considering it is so harsh up there..?
Tasco
I will try and make this fast before I go to work:
QUOTE (Sergeant Russell @ Dec 2 2008, 05:22 PM) *
I'm not even going to argue it anymore...but fire isn't a problem if you learn how to make it and utilize it correctly..even in 30 mph winds. Anyways, maybe some winter survival classes would be helpfull considering it is so harsh up there..?


I think WE missed his point Sgt. R. He said he will be living/staying in old barns and such to stay out of the cold weather. The ground in the barn will still be frozen but think about the hay, wood and other stuff to burn inside that barn. I'm not saying to make a damn bon-fire, but I see Happy's approach and its a decent one at that.

Happy - if you do live/stay in a barn, I would highly advise you to watch out for the farmers/ranch hands. Regardless of a SHTF or not, most people who do farm, its there way of life and you will be seen as a threat.
Sugao

Alright. I finally got an image up of my pack's contents. I received a high quality backpack for Christmas so now I'm able to fit all this and more in there. It's rather light too, considering the fact theres an ax in there. Here's a general list of what's in it. Don't be surprised if I forget a few things.

Medical:
Trek 1 medical kit
Poison Ivy cream
Tick removers
Triple antibiotic cream
Burn cream
Medical tape x3
Toothache reliever

Light:
Glowsticks x3
Crank flashlight
Head light
small battery-operated pen light

Shelter/Warmth:
Poncho x5
Emergency blanket x3
Emergency shelter x2
Pack Pillow

Fire:
Solid Fuel logs x3
Solid Fuel stick pack (probably 8 of them in there)
Fire paste
Strike anywhere matches (in waterproof container)
Fire coloring sticks x2

Mess:
Mountain house freeze dried food x4
2 multi-function mess tools
mess utencil kit in a plastic bag
salt/pepper
Water purification tablets x2

Other tools:
Pocket Knife (good sized)
Notebook/pen
Compass x2 (1 is attached to the bag itself)
Camo duct tape
Nylon rope
Spool of string
Head net
Toilet seat covers
Mace/CS gas spray
Ax

-

Now, I know theres some things that are missing here and because they don't come to mind I wouldn't mind some help from you fine folks. What am I leaving out?
Thanks.
Tasco
QUOTE (Sugao @ Dec 27 2008, 12:58 PM) *
Alright. I finally got an image up of my pack's contents. I received a high quality backpack for Christmas so now I'm able to fit all this and more in there. It's rather light too, considering the fact theres an ax in there. Here's a general list of what's in it. Don't be surprised if I forget a few things.

Medical:
Trek 1 medical kit
Poison Ivy cream
Tick removers
Triple antibiotic cream
Burn cream
Medical tape x3
Toothache reliever

Light:
Glowsticks x3
Crank flashlight
Head light
small battery-operated pen light

Shelter/Warmth:
Poncho x5
Emergency blanket x3
Emergency shelter x2
Pack Pillow

Fire:
Solid Fuel logs x3
Solid Fuel stick pack (probably 8 of them in there)
Fire paste
Strike anywhere matches (in waterproof container)
Fire coloring sticks x2

Mess:
Mountain house freeze dried food x4
2 multi-function mess tools
mess utencil kit in a plastic bag
salt/pepper
Water purification tablets x2

Other tools:
Pocket Knife (good sized)
Notebook/pen
Compass x2 (1 is attached to the bag itself)
Camo duct tape
Nylon rope
Spool of string
Head net
Toilet seat covers
Mace/CS gas spray
Ax

-

Now, I know theres some things that are missing here and because they don't come to mind I wouldn't mind some help from you fine folks. What am I leaving out?
Thanks.


My main concern for your bag is, where are your clothes? Is that stuff in another bag? If so please list that one to.
nunnally04
I managed to get everything in my bag just fine, and did some sewing to reinforce the stitching. All I have left to do is get dehydrated food (or whatever), 550 cord (about 300ft in 100ft sections), and a small atlas of as many places I can get in the right size(s).
superhobo




Weeeeeeeeeee!!!

Whole lot of stuff missing from those pics, but you kind of get the point.
Drucifer
QUOTE (nunnally04 @ Nov 16 2008, 10:27 PM) *
My BOB is almost finished, and I need a good bit more stuff. The things I need still are:

1. A new bag, the one I have now is real big, but not big enough, too many small pockets. It also isn't very comfortable, which I learned on my long hike/camp.
2.more BDUs, I have 2 pair now total, and one blouse, and one field jacket.
3.undershirts, socks, underwear, etc
4.hand saw (the rope like kind), or a hatchet (need help deciding)
5.folding shovel (maybe not, working on making a new handle for a small one I have now (non folding).
6.lighter/fire starters (tinder, flints, etc)
7.misquto/bug- nets/block/etc
8.60-85lb test line (I have 15 and 20 now)(about 600 yards total)
9.survival books/guides
10.navigation equipment (compass, maps, ruler, etc)
11.a couple more personal hygiene equipment (shaving, shampoo, etc)
12.water/filtering/purifing stuff
13.food- MREs, Mountain House, etc (where can I get actual MREs not the knock-offs)(whats best)(how many)
14.bottled water/canteens
15.rain equipment
16. 550 cord, etc
17.more sleeping equipment (bag/cover/etc)
18.cooking equipment



As you can see, I don't have a very complete kit now, all of the stuff I have now, I already had, so I haven't bought anything. I would like to stay as cheap as possible, and still get good equipment, I have the money.


1 - Medium ALICE pack. Cheap, reasonably comfortable, and easy to find.
2 - go with light weight civvy clothes. Look into 5.11 tactical or something similar...
3 - socks. Merino wool. Warm / cool and wicking. Any brand. Go Wool.
4 - Gerber. They make a camping saw that slides into its own handle. I've carried one of these for years. Also, great warranty...
5 - Are you digging a shallow grave??? Ditch it.
6 - I carry (in my BOB) a firesteel and some Triox tabs.
7 - Suck it up. If you're worried about West Nile, things are good...
8 - 20 yds 20 lbs and some hooks, and split shot. Think fishing, not deep water trawling...
9 - Put it on a USB drive... (more to follow...) Also, READ and remember. Perfect practice makes perfect.
10 - YES!!! LOCAL topos and a compass. GPS as a backup... (batteries die)
11 - Brush your teeth, carry some baby wipes as a quick whore bath.
12 - You'll die w/o water. Sweetwater microfilter and MSR MIOXX tabs. Get a container to put your H2O in too... Camelbak bladder or a colapsable container... You don't want to filter 1 qt of H2O at a time...
13 - Yup, you'll need that too... If you go MRE's, strip them to save weight / space. They have a lot of crap you don't need...
14 - Covered in #12. Drop in a couple bottles of H2O for the interim...
15 - Embrace the suck.
16 - YES! 50 ft is a great start.
17 - Where do you live? Avg temp? Hi / Low? Space vs. Weight. A bag is great gear, but takes up space quickly. Make sure you need it. (Think BO location, conditions, space, etc...) Not saying dontdo it, but be conservative...
18 - Again, YES. This is one of your BIG 3s. Go for light, convenience and availability of fuel. Look into alcohol stoves. Make one. (Contact me, I'll teach you...)


You have the right idea. Good on ya. A little tweaking and you'll have it.

A BOB is tailored to the individual. What may be right for me may not work for you. The important thing is the the big 3. FOOD, WATER, and SHELTER. Everything else is gravy.

I look forward to expanding on this topic...


D
nunnally04
QUOTE (Drucifer @ Jan 24 2009, 01:12 AM) *
1 - Medium ALICE pack. Cheap, reasonably comfortable, and easy to find.
2 - go with light weight civvy clothes. Look into 5.11 tactical or something similar...
3 - socks. Merino wool. Warm / cool and wicking. Any brand. Go Wool.
4 - Gerber. They make a camping saw that slides into its own handle. I've carried one of these for years. Also, great warranty...
5 - Are you digging a shallow grave??? Ditch it.
6 - I carry (in my BOB) a firesteel and some Triox tabs.
7 - Suck it up. If you're worried about West Nile, things are good...
8 - 20 yds 20 lbs and some hooks, and split shot. Think fishing, not deep water trawling...
9 - Put it on a USB drive... (more to follow...) Also, READ and remember. Perfect practice makes perfect.
10 - YES!!! LOCAL topos and a compass. GPS as a backup... (batteries die)
11 - Brush your teeth, carry some baby wipes as a quick whore bath.
12 - You'll die w/o water. Sweetwater microfilter and MSR MIOXX tabs. Get a container to put your H2O in too... Camelbak bladder or a colapsable container... You don't want to filter 1 qt of H2O at a time...
13 - Yup, you'll need that too... If you go MRE's, strip them to save weight / space. They have a lot of crap you don't need...
14 - Covered in #12. Drop in a couple bottles of H2O for the interim...
15 - Embrace the suck.
16 - YES! 50 ft is a great start.
17 - Where do you live? Avg temp? Hi / Low? Space vs. Weight. A bag is great gear, but takes up space quickly. Make sure you need it. (Think BO location, conditions, space, etc...) Not saying dontdo it, but be conservative...
18 - Again, YES. This is one of your BIG 3s. Go for light, convenience and availability of fuel. Look into alcohol stoves. Make one. (Contact me, I'll teach you...)


You have the right idea. Good on ya. A little tweaking and you'll have it.

A BOB is tailored to the individual. What may be right for me may not work for you. The important thing is the the big 3. FOOD, WATER, and SHELTER. Everything else is gravy.

I look forward to expanding on this topic...


D



Thanks alot man, but because of where I live I'm going to have to fight my way out, and I can't stay put. A shovel is very important IMO, burying waste (human and trash), fire pit, etc. West Nile is a pretty big problem around here (idk why) there have been many sick, and a few die. Rain equipment, IMO, is needed, its not that hard to get pnumonia, etc. I need to update my bag, cause I'm almost finished, just need food, filter (and tablets), alot of 550 cord, and an atlas (map w/e).
12g


-NBC mask
-MRE fuel packs
-disposable lighter
-matches in water proof capsule
-Magnesium fire starter
-Mylar Blankets
-Compass
-Cold Steel spike
-Swiss Army pocket knife
-Soap,razor, shaving cream, comb, toothbrush/toothpaste
-Towels that expand when you add water
-some moist towelettes
-Drop Pouch on the side for misc. stuff
-Mtech 10 inch tanto knife
-Polycarbonate Water bottle

-Added a flashlight, usb drive, and some vitiams

Extra food, clothes, and water will be thrown in a back pack when its time to bug out.
daviecroket









top three pics are bug out bag, fourth is my personal bug out vest thing.
any questions feel free to ask.
nunnally04
Well...my bag ripped...apparently the way I had my clothes packed (compressed in 2 zip lock bags) the bags let air out and the clothes got larger...and well you can figure out the rest...


Point is I need a new bag...money right now isn't a problem because I want the best I can get (and this is where all my money is going), but I would like to stay around $100-about $150. I'm looking on eBay now at this. Tell me what you think. Especially from those of you (military) that have used it when it counts. Or used it period really...

My "requirements" for a BOB is more of a ruck bag for getting WAAAAYYY out of dodge. So with this, I'll be able to get EVERYTHING I need, plus some extra food/water/etc.
Tasco
Its a great 'starter' bag IMO. I use a DCU one when I deploy and it works out the way I need it. However, if you need to pack everything to include the kitchen sink, then no, you need a larger one. I would look around a bit more and see if you can find a ALICE pack. You can never go wrong with an ALICE.
12g
Yeah u can find a surplus Alice pack on ebay with frame for about $50, which is a pretty good deal.
nunnally04
I got a big MountainSmith (3500 cubic inches). I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but it has the mesh at the bottom to carry a sleeping bag/tent/etc. I put my tent, sleeping bag, and pillow in it. So when you take into account it has 3500 cu. for everything else (food, water, clothes, etc) its a lot. I'll take pics when I get a few Mountian Houses (Tried one, beef strogenoff with noodles) and cliff protein bars (once again tried and liked).


Other than food (that I can think of) all I have left to get is a water filter (I'm thinking katadyn?) and my bag will be completed.
Alpha-17
First of all, understand that the picture was taken during an airsoft game, so the weapons pictured aren't real. However, they do have real-steel counterparts.



Kit List:

Base Layer:
TruSpec MultiCam Combat Shirt
TruSpec MultiCam ACU pants
Okley Half Jacket shooting glasses
US Army Issue Summer Boots
Hatch SOG Operator Gloves

Fist Line:
Specialty Defense Systems ACH w/TruSpec MultiCam cover
Paraclete RBAV 07 w/Issue ESAPI plates, and MSA Paraclete BALCS soft armor inserts
Serpa 1911 Holster w/Mag pouch
MultiCam Drop leg panel w/TacTailor Double Pistol mag pouch and ATS Medical Pouch w/Army IFAK supplies
Altama MultiCam Knee Pads

Second Line (front)
ATS MultiCam Roll-up dump pouch
3 TacTailor 7.62 Shingles
Double Condor 7.62 Shingle
TacTailor Smoke Grenade Pouch
Paraclete GP pouch
TacTailor Triple Pistol Mag Pouch

Second Line (back):
TacTailor Hydration Bladder Pouch w/Camel Bak hydration Bladder
Gerber Infantry Survival Knife
NorthEast Tactical MOLLE mounted Single Point Sling
Tru-Spec Radio Pouch

The weapons I have for use with this are a Springfield Armory M1A Scout, and a ParaOrdance P14.45 LDA. Currently saving up for a Troy Industries Chassis for the M14 (anyone with experience, advise would be appreciated).

Say it, I'm a MultiCam fanboy.
Wayneard3413
Looks like a pretty well thought out kit... Although I am not a fan of stuff on my legs


I will have to update with some new pics of how I am running my kit now
Tasco
Updated Pics -

My Camelbak BFM:

LEFT SIDE


RIGHT SIDE


MAIN POCKET OPEN


CONTENTS OF MAIN POCKET


Left side down:
Ballistic Eye Wear
Woodland Rain Jacket
Danner Hot Weather Boots

Right side down:
Silk Top
Silk Bottom
1 Set of BDU's with Belt

Back side of Main Pocket (mesh net area)


Contents of zip lock bag:


Left to Right:
Fleece Hat
Brown Rag
3 Pairs of Boxer Briefs
3 Pairs of Black Boot Socks

Hyginie Bag:


Left to Right:
Shampoo
Clippers
Baby Wipes
Tooth Brush
Deoderant
Micro Fiber Towel
Toilet Paper
Soap
Toothpaste
Carrier

Secondary Pouch:


Contents of Secondary Pouch:


Left to Right:
Map of Missouri
All Weather Pad
5 Blue Chem-Lights
Pens, Penceils, Marker
5" Boot Knife
Pouch with 1 Double M9 Mag Pouch
SW99 9mm with 2 Mags
Zip Lock Bag with 50 9mm Rounds
Pelcan Flashlight
Pouch - Asst. Food

Bottom Pouch (not pictured) Contents:


First Aid Kit (housed on left side of bag)


Contents of First Aid Kit:
IFAK with a few extra goodies.



There you have it, my updated bag.


Alpha-17
After a lot of thought, I've finally settled on the bag, and for the most part, what to put in it. My intention is for the BOB to sustain me for 3 days or so. Here's what I've got thus far:

CamelBak TriZip, w/100oz bladder


The Stuff I have now


Left Side pocket, holding 100ft of tan 550 cord, and 4 bungie cords


Right side pocket, w/water proof matches and water proof case, eating utensils, AA batteries, three bottles of Iodine pills, and a few silver coins.


Top of bag:


Main compartment. Left side: Light weight snivel gear, Trioxane fuel tablets. Center: 4 stripped MREs, MultiCam BDU pants, 2 pair USGI boot socks. Right: Holy Bible, tan T-shirt, brown T-shirt.


I still need to get:
1-2 more stripped MREs
4-6 energy bars/power bars
Small map of NC
Gerber or Leatherman multi-tool
Small flashlight (either Surefire or Streamlight)
batteries for flashlight
compass
More water proof batteries
Knife or Machete
Head lamp with red light capability
Weapons cleaning kit, w/oil, bore snake, and rag
Baby wipes
tooth brush and tooth paste
1-quart canteen and canteen cup (in 1 Quart MOLLE pouch attached to outside)
Pocket sized wire saw
Pen and small notebook
Mag pouches for 2 1911 .45 mags, and 4 PMags

Anything major I'm forgetting?
Ice4600
I've been designing my BoB for a little while and wanted to run it past you guys. I'm going for a completely modular design that will let me grab exactly what I'll need for the situation and go within 10 minutes. Each section can be housed in relatively small waterproof containers which I will mark for easy identification and use. Nothing would be worse than needing a suture kit and having to look through 30 pounds of other gear to find it. Obviously most sections of stuff will be taken no matter what, but the specialized stuff would only be taken if the situation called for it (natural disaster, terrorist attack, SHTF, etc as well as summer vs winter). Very few items on my list have brand names and are actual products only because I haven't had time to search out exactly what to buy. I'd rather do this in person though, opposed to online because product reviews can only tell me so much and I'd rather see first hand what my life will depend on. Since I'm only 17 I can't legally purchase firearms but I'm definitely well acquainted to them and rather knowledgeable on the subject so I've looked into those as well. I'm designing this as a single large pack to carry with additional (small) storage on myself. There will also be a secondary bag that the person I'm with would carry and would house the specialized equipment if needed. This is what I've planned so far:

//PRIMARY PACK//


==General Survival/Navigation==
Compass
Complete US Army Survival Guide (for plant details and such)
Maps of prospected area with planned routes and waypoints
2 Way radios
Emergency radio (solar hopefully)
Paracord
Flares
Mirror
Chemical lights


==Gear==
Large pack with waistband, external pouches and pockets
Canteens
Drop-leg holster and sheath


==Clothing==
Full changes of clothes vacuum sealed (for compact size and waterproofing)
Extra socks
Thermal underwear
Overcoats (winter requiring)


==Tools/Blades==
Bowie/Survival Knife
- Basic hilt survival kit
Folding Knife
Multitool
Hatchet
Pocket Chainsaw


==Food/Water==
Water purification system
- Filters
- Tablets
metal vessel for cooking or boiling water (doubles as storage container)
Non perishable compact foods
- Energy bars
- Boulion Cubes
- Stripped MRE's
Fishing kit


==First Aid== (am I missing anything?)
Suture kit
medical tape
splints
bandages
gauze
disinfecting solution
Pain releivers
blood clotter


==Shelter/Fire== (incomplete, help?)
Camouflage tarps
Emergency Blanket
Waterproof matches
lighter
Magnesium Firestarter


==Maintanence==
Gun cleaning kit
Sharpening Stone


==Misc==
Duct Tape
Tooth brush/paste
Bar soap


\\SECONDARY PACK\\ - Extended time, treacherous terrain, actively hostile environment


==Climbing== (These are things I'll own anyway as I've become more interested in the sport of climbing, and will give an advantage if bugging out to mountains.)
Climbing Rope
Carabiners
Harnesses
Belay Devices


==Camouflage== (If the area becomes actively hostile, I'd like to have sufficient camouflage and I'd use them for airsoft skirmishes before SHTF anyway so no waste.)
Ghillie suits
Ghillie netting
Face paint


==Shelter== (Winters can be bad here and where I'll go to college, so I'd like to be prepared for the -20 windchills, but only if necessary. Definitely bulky gear.)
Compact tent
Winter sleeping bags
Heavy blankets


==Tools== (Can't hurt, but I don't want to have to carry these unless I know I'll use them.)
Entrenchment Tool


//WEAPONS// (again, not of legal age yet but I know my stuff and this is what I'm looking at. Glock may be replaced with a 1911 depending on money)

Remmington M700
- .300 Win Mag
- Scope

Springfield Armory M1A
- 7.62x51 NATO
- Scope

Glock 17
- 9mm Parabellum
- Tac Light

Compound Bow
- Field Point Arrows
- Broadhead Arrows

Please criticize and help, its always appreciated.
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